Jill: 0:01

Welcome to the Crossing Voices from The Lighthouse. In today's episode we sit down with the Rev Melissa Hall and the Rev Audrey Hasselbrook of St James Episcopal Church in Upper Montclair, two faith leaders whose hearts and parish have become deeply intertwined with the ministry of The Lighthouse. This is a conversation about how a chance hallway encounter turned into a sacred partnership, about what happens when a church doesn't just talk about the gospel but lives it. You'll hear how youth group service turned into friendship, how parishioners moved from ideas to action, and how faith is challenged, stretched and made real not in grand gestures but in daily acts of love and courage. Good morning, reverend Audrey and Reverend Melissa from St James, upper Montclair. It's so great to have you here today Morning.

Melissa: 0:56

Jill, Thank you for inviting us.

Jill: 0:58

I'd love to start just by jumping in and asking you to tell the story about how you first became involved with The Lighthouse. How did that partnership begin?

Melissa: 1:10

I think, as in everything, god's put you where you need to be. Actually, you and I one day ran into each other in the hallway. You and I had known each other for a long time and you were on the phone phone and I remember listening to you and this you had that worry dent that you get when things are. And I was watching you on the phone and I says everything okay. And you said, no, we have a family that needs to get here. I believe they were in California at the time and I can't get them here. And I'm, and I'm really beside beside myself and I could tell and I said, well, okay, well, how much does that cost? And I don't know what. The number was $300, whatever it was. I said, okay, we'll help you with that. And you just stopped and you looked at me as if I was playing with you and I said, no, no, that's okay. And you said that's wonderful.

Melissa: 2:02

And we made sure that the money that you needed was there and then you kind of wandered off. You know that this was okay here's a minute for us to do something, but now there's other things to get done. But you circled around with that family who appeared not only as a husband and wife, but with a baby, beautiful baby, and we had taken them up into the thrift store to help clothe them. I remember the husband saying to you, jill, I want to say something in Spanish and looking at Audrey and I and saying I was so grateful for everything you've done. And then it was like, okay, now we get it, that's it, that's the ministry. There are the people and showing us their baby, and that was it. We were hooked, as we should have been from the very beginning.

Jill: 2:44

And it's been two years since then and St James has been so faithful in the work and the support that it's done with The Lighthouse. I know you had your youth group come out, reverend Audrey. You asked me can the youth group come out and spend a day doing service at The Lighthouse? And I said sure, and you and I planned a little, something, something, and there you were and it turned out to be a magical day. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Audrey: 3:11

It was our parliamentarian that first told me about The lighthouse and she was so enthusiastic about it. And then, when you had offered that this might be something that the confirmation class could do, some real hands-on ministry, working with people it sounded like something that would be an experience that would help them to understand the breadth of God's people and the understanding that there are many ways for us to be in community with one another. And of course, they started with the sort of hands-on we're going to clean some things, we're going to do some things but quickly it turned into doing things together. And that was really the important point of that and how it changed the hearts.

Audrey: 3:52

That experience changed the hearts of some of the adults who went with us yes, who weren't quite sure what this was all about, but they would come. That's probably why they did come so they could be there with their children and then to come back and that's probably why they did come so they could be there with their children and then to come back and say, wait a second, I have things I can do. This is how we can help. This is what we do as people, as beloved children of God. So it wasn't the I'm the good person doing for somebody else. But I'm going to work with somebody who has many gifts and skills just as I have gifts and skills and that we have common ground together and skills just as I have gifts and skills and that we have common ground together.

Jill: 4:25

You guys have just been amazing. I remember when we received a guest from Ghana and we'll just call him David and David did not know how to cook a thing, and here he was now living at The Lighthouse where, you know, families and individuals kind of cook for themselves, and David had to learn how to cook quickly and you so generously offered to give him a cooking lesson. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Audrey: 4:50

That was very sweet Teaching someone adult to how to cook a very simple meal, knowing that the budget is going to be limited, like it is for many of us, and we'd made a chicken stew, I think is what it was in the end. And then just, of course, the smile on the face when you taste the finished product. It actually tastes good and I understand that our friend David is able to cook for himself and has found his way around the kitchen, and that's a terrific experience.

Jill: 5:18

Yes, he sure has, and he was so proud to make that meal multiple times and from that started watching YouTube videos to was so proud to make that meal multiple times and from that started watching YouTube videos to teach himself how to make different things and even, you know, some of his own cultural food. So he was really thrilled about that.

Melissa: 5:35

The fact that he was able to make a meal was wonderful. But I think for me that story is about shifting concept for these young people, our kids, our youth into reality. He was a person. For them, he became a person. The children then instructed the adults they talked about their friends, they talked about the children, they talked about being in the house and their enthusiasm let's have a Christmas party for our friends. That was really. I mean, he learned how to make a chicken, but what we got out of that was fill the pot. We didn't know it was empty. It was wonderful. It was a wonderful moment, I think, for us.

Jill: 6:16

Speaking from a faith perspective, how do you think your parishioners and others who have entered into relationship with guests at The Lighthouse, can you talk a little bit about how you think they've been transformed and how maybe their faith has been enriched and expanded as a result of the experience?

Melissa: 6:39

Yes, Our experience with The Lighthouse, our experience with their legal presence in this country, our experience with that being completely turned around, our experience with their fear, now their isolation. I think the folks who are okay with that are now having to take responsibility for what they proclaim to be their faith. God, or Jesus, loves without condition. That. We're called to love our neighbors. We're called no matter who they are. We proclaim that every Sunday. Sounds nice, but now here's the hard work of doing it. So I think what's happened is I'm not sure if their faith has been informed, but their faith is now being challenged and that, if this is what you proclaim, then you need to take responsibility for it. And I think that's the piece for me is more critical.

Melissa: 7:30

Of course, you know we're always accused of oh, you're preaching politics. And my response is well, the gospel Jesus says you love everyone, you take care of everyone, you don't discriminate, you give everybody dignity and respect, and that's what the gospel is. I'm sorry that is kind of counter to your political viewpoint. It's gospel, it's not politics. It's gospel and they have to live with that and that's what they're being called to now. If that's what you believe and you proclaim that, then you have to be responsible for that.

Melissa: 8:01

You don't get to avert your eyes to where it's comfortable to see, because everywhere you turn, the question is asked okay, you say, this is your gospel, how are you living it? It's everywhere in this church, so you might well, I don't want to look at that, I don't want to do that, oh well, okay. Oh, by the way, look at the pantry on the front lawn. Or, oh, by the way, look at the AA people who come in every day to looking for resurrection. Everywhere you look, your faith is challenged. And that's what I love about this congregation, and The Lighthouse has become prominent in that it is a house, it's a home. These are friends, these are people, and you can look to the left, but there's more of them, and you look to the right and they're all there. You cannot avert your eyes from what the gospel calls us in the presence of the asylum seekers.

Jill: 8:49

Yeah, st James, I mean, is such an extraordinary congregation. You do so much, between your thrift store, with all of your funding going to various outreach ministries, to your little food pantry on the lawn, to your work with The Lighthouse. I mean, it just really is extraordinary how much you do. I'd love you to help me with something, because sometimes I visit churches and they want to help, they feel called to help, and what they say to me is, oh, but we're just a small little congregation. They look at their capacity in terms of the number of people in the church and feel I think sometimes like, oh, but we're just a small little congregation. They look at their capacity in terms of the number of people in the church and feel I think sometimes like, oh, we're not really a forceful enough entity to do anything. How would you guide churches like that, who might be looking for ways to support The Lighthouse, for example, but just don't know where to start or feel like they don't have the capacity?

Melissa: 9:46

You know, I think Jesus saying to his disciples the poor will always be with you is such a shocking thing to come out of his mouth, but the beauty of that is what he's, I believe, for me saying is that there will always be somebody in need, always You're not going to eradicate. As long as human beings are together, you will not eradicate hunger. You won't eradicate poverty, you won't violence or cruelty, you won't. It's the human experience. However, they'll always be here means that there'll always be a place for you to make a difference for one. You make a difference for one. You feed one hungry person. You might not know who they are, you may never see them again, but for that moment, for that day, with that little can of tuna or that warm coat or whatever it is that you provided, or you know teaching someone how to make a chicken meal for that one day, dignity, respect they are seen, they have been seen, they've been heard and they've been cared for. And then they walk away and we know it happened to our chef. Okay, he felt seen, heard and cared for. That's what I think you have to emphasize for the smaller congregations. You are not going to eradicate poverty. You're not going to feed everybody. Feed one person and see what a difference, and take pride and joy in that, because that's what Jesus calls us to.

Melissa: 11:16

He didn't have 55,000 people at his table, he had 12. Let me start with 12. Let me see if I can get these folks going. Let me see if I can put an idea in their head. It's when two or three are gathered in my name, it's not when everybody's gathered in my name. Don't look at the big of you, look at the person right in front of you. That would be the best advice I'd give.

Audrey: 11:37

Many of us would like to just continue on with life in a safe and narrow lane, but realize that unless one uses one's voice, then you can't look for others to make change. It's up to us as individuals and as a community. All of us can remember a time when someone was gracious to us and what it meant to us, and why would that not apply to someone else? To someone else, whether it's letting the person cut across you in the traffic so they can make a turn, or whether it's something much larger, whether it goes into forgiveness, whatever the realm may be. And that is how often change happens. Yes, there are times when there are huge changes, seismic changes, but often it's bit by bit by bit.

Jill: 12:22

I really appreciate that, and we can't do this work without people like you, without churches like yours. I guess I have a question that probably is a personal one, and I'd love to hear how each of you personally has been impacted or changed or touched by your work with The Lighthouse. How has it affected you as an individual?

Melissa: 12:47

For me, it has provided a cosmic sense of relief, relief that we have been given an opportunity to once again live out what we proclaim, that we love all of God's people. It's a relief and something, people, it's a relief and something that is real, something that what do we do? You put it in front of me and then you put it in front of Audrey, and then Audrey and I put it in front of the people. And what a relief to be able to say to them you don't know how to do this, You're not sure, You're floundering in a world that's screaming from every corner in need. Here's a place that you can do something that will be meaningful. And they stepped up and did it.

Melissa: 13:31

What a relief to have that opportunity. What a relief because we're always trying to make the gospel, to bring it home to them in a real way. You know, we give away a lot of money, we give away a lot of things. It's that hands-on peace that is not always available and it was such a relief to have. Oh, here's a place where we can point them, here's a place where we can put our here's a place that will mean something to so many people. So relief, that's what I could say.

Audrey: 14:03

I will say I admire, jill, that you have gone from being maybe monolingual to bilingual, and I appreciate the gift of your facility with language, Because that's how you really relate with someone.

Audrey: 14:17

And though I've had Spanish classes, I do not have your skills, so some of that is maybe an accountability to myself.

Audrey: 14:25

That the importance of continuing your study and education to make sure that you're able to communicate with people that you're working with and to diminish the use of a boundary or separation because of something. What I also find is the understanding of God's people continues to expand and to see how small, seemingly small things that even our diocese could do, such as other rectories that are underutilized or space that is underutilized to use it more appropriately. In this time where church is changing in its presence in the community and I think that's something that we all need to do more than think about it's time to put some more action into it. So I think, especially in your diaconal role, you have modeled being the deacon in the community and bringing back the needs of the community to the congregation so that a loop or circle can be closed, and an understanding of what to do, because that answers some of what you were asking earlier what can a small congregation do? You make it obvious.

Jill: 15:36

So important that we join together and step up and meet this moment together. It's a tough moment in so many ways, and I can't thank you enough for all of the support that you have given to me personally, to our guests at The Lighthouse, to The Lighthouse as an entity, as a ministry, and I just so admire the work that you do at St James and that your parishioners do. If every church were a St James Montclair, I think our world would be well-served. So thank you so much for everything that you've done.

Audrey: 16:13

Thank you, and I'm looking forward to making some preaching dates for you, okay.

Jill: 16:18

Yes, I can't wait to come back.

Melissa: 16:20

And Jill. Keep being that holy nudge. Keep being that nudge. You are a nudge, there is no other word. You're a nudge and it's wonderful.

Melissa: 16:29

You're the persistent voice you say get over yourselves. Just get over whoever you think you are. Listen to me. Look, I need help, you need to do this, you need to do this. Well, we just do it because, for God's sakes, all right, we'll do it. I mean, you're a prophet and you're a persistent, loving voice.

Melissa: 16:49

Don't give up on that. I know that it has an effect and I don't mean that in a bad way. I admire that. You never give up.

Melissa: 16:57

You never stop speaking the truth about The Lighthouse, even now when we're in a place when the dark night of the soul, when you said to me I don't even know if there's going to be a Lighthouse in a year, and I was like, wow, that's a terrible thing she just said. And then, two minutes later, you're saying and now I got to go to Mexico because, wait a minute, what happened to dark night of the soul and how am I going to get there? I was like what happened to Dark Night of the Soul and how am I going to get there? I was like, okay, here we go and you kept on and you did what you needed to do.

Melissa: 17:27

And I've known you a long time. I've known you in many capacities and to see you in this capacity it's a very lovely thing. It makes me very hopeful. And I know that I'm leaving my ministry I'm retiring in two months, but that's okay. I know that you'll be out there. You'll be that clarion voice and Reverend Audrey will be right next to you and thank you, thank you for allowing me to finish my ministry out helping this way. It's been tremendously meaningful to me, an affirmation that God calls, god expects you to do something.

Jill: 17:58

You know, on behalf of the guests at The Lighthouse and I know they would want me to thank you heartily, because that is a house full of very, very, very grateful people and they do feel loved for the experience of being in relationship with people like you and with your parishioners. So thank you very much and God bless you both and with your parishioners. So thank you very much and God bless you both. Thanks for listening to the Crossing Voices from The Lighthouse. Today we heard what happens when two clergy and their congregations say yes, yes to the gospel that refuses to stay in the pews, yes to the work of building real relationships and yes to making space for true transformation. Reverend Audrey spoke about the importance of showing up, not to serve at others, but to serve with them, to cook clean, laugh and learn side by side. And Reverend Melissa reminded us that the call of the gospel isn't just comfort, it's responsibility. Their partnership with The Lighthouse has changed lives, not just of the guests who found welcome, but of the people who offered it.

Jill: 19:09

To every listener wondering we're just a small church, what can we do? Let their voices be your answer. You don't need to do everything. Just start with one. Feed one person. Teach to cook one meal, offer one ride, make one friend and trust that in God's hands that one is holy. We'll be back soon with more episodes. In the meantime, please tell your friends and family about this podcast and please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify To learn more about The Lighthouse. Visit lighthousenj. org. Peace be with you.